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38BlueLake2 2 years ago
It's time for my annual React project where I set up a new React app and spend a few days reminding myself why I hate everything related to web development
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21TulipsOfLove 2 years ago
@BlueLake2 exactly!!
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38BlueLake2 2 years ago
I had to take an intro web dev class last summer as a prereq that didn't allow anything more advanced than HTML/CSS/vanilla JS and it was pretty refreshing. I was able to make full single page apps with lazy loading and responsive transitions. There really isn't much that you can't do with just Javascript so it's pretty annoying how often the status quo changes.
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70.:A-MAN:.
2 years ago
@umer936 oh yeah debugging is a whole separate issue.
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62umer936
2 years ago
The dependency nightmare of React projects causes me physical pain, especially coming from a cybersecurity background.

I also make CakePHP applications that I don't have much issue with, but making those makes me miss out on the React stuff. Also, maybe I'm just bad at it, but I find debugging React apps so much harder than it is in a PHP framework.
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62umer936
2 years ago
Welcome to my life
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21TulipsOfLove 2 years ago
@.:A-MAN:. Ohhh...
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70.:A-MAN:.
2 years ago
@TulipsOfLove well, the problem is using only plain js/html/css causes you to end up redoing stuff over and over. A lot of the frameworks out there exist to minimize that, but other at the cost of other inefficiencies and headaches.
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21TulipsOfLove 2 years ago
@BlueLake2 That sounds so overwhelming hehe. I remember basic web development just needed simple JS, HTML & CSS. Was easy for everyone of us to learn. This modern "webapp" stuff is just a bit much. We have normal apps for a reason. Why does modern web have to be so much like a native app, when it isn't
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38BlueLake2 2 years ago
And while Typescript is totally an improvement on Javascript, it's still not a seamless transition and has a lot of workarounds to get it to work. One example, if a library is written in Javascript without types then you need to install a separate library that contains its type declarations. I understand why it's necessary, but using a strongly typed language and installing a library then having to separately install the library's types feels so second-class.
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38BlueLake2 2 years ago
@TulipsOfLove React itself is pretty fun, but everything about modern web dev environments is awful. Every small thing gets thrown into its own modular package which eventually gets abandoned, and only then do people realize the package was never forward compatible and now you have several peer dependency conflicts that are only solved with forcing legacy dependencies, something you probably shouldn't do but everyone has to do. This article is 8 years old but is still a good explanation of the environment hairball today. Since it's almost a decade old some of the complaints about stuff like React and Typescript are now standard and no longer confusing, but the article's premise still lives on. I would suggest adding:

"So if I want to install one of these node packages I should use Node package manager?"
"It's 2022. We use Yarn, nobody should use npm."
"Oh right. So how do I use Yarn instead of npm?"
"Run npm install --global yarn"
"I'm using a package manager to install a package manager?"
"Yup. While we're on that topic, don't mix npm with Yarn, your dependency locks will get all messed up."
"Don't mix them? But didn't I just install Yarn using npm?"
"Yeah, don't let it happen again."

I have more experience in Java/Kotlin so naturally I'll lean more in that direction, but Maven and Gradle feel way more robust than any web package manager. IMO installing a library as a global systemwide project vs as a local project dependency shouldn't be the same CLI command with a one flag difference, that's nuts. These project managers were probably installed with something like Homebrew or Chocolatey, so why can't we just continue using that for other global packages and reserve npm/Yarn for project dependencies?
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70.:A-MAN:.
2 years ago
Welcome to the club
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21TulipsOfLove 2 years ago
Can you list some of the things you don't like about it?
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